It seems that each week I am asked to tell my Tales From Grad School to another Undergrad. I am always honest about my grad experiences, which, as some of you know, boarded on the semi-awful to the what-the-hell-was-I-thinking awful.
Of course I'd do it all over again!
This past week, an Undergrad commented that he had thought grad school sounded like so much fun, but then after talking with all the profs, he wasn't so sure.
Oops.
Are you honest with your undergrads about your grad school experiences? And on the scale of awful, where did (does) your grad school life fall?
16 comments:
This is a very interesting question! I am honest that grad school is hard work and in my discipline if you don't like research than there are other ways to get to the same career options to some extent.
I'm not honest about how horrid it was because I can't let that opinion get back to my grad school... I keep my mouth shut for my own gain.
But grad school was definitely the worst of times. My job is 500% better than grad school.
Grad school was without a doubt the worst time of my life. I left with a MS and took a job a big pharma and I don't regret it one bit.
Here is my advice to all undergrad readers of this blog - think long and hard if the time spent in grad school and post-doc is worth it. The opportunity costs of getting a PhD are tremendous. Also, the game changer nowadays is outsourcing. Labor/research costs are lower and China and India, so the work is tending to go there. A PhD is no guarantee of a decent paying job or any employment prospects. I know many folks who did a 6 year PhD and sometimes 2 (yes, 2) post-docs and can't find work.
Again, I urge you, think if spend the entirety of your 20's in grad school and post-doc is worth it to you. If it is, by all means, go for it.
I'm pretty honest. I'd say my experience was better than most, but I still generally discourage most people from doing it.
This sucks to say, but how I talk about it depends somewhat on who's asking. I've heard many people in the blogosphere say that they were told at some point that they "weren't cut out for grad school/rsearch" and how wrong and offensive that was. But now, I see people who I think would really excel in grad school and beyond, and others I think just arent' cut out for it. Who am I to say, of course, but I want to be honest too. I'd never, ever actually say that to anybody, but I emphasize different things to different people. If someone has a weakness that will make grad school fall somewhere on the range from awful to insurmountable, she should be aware that grad students have to do important tasks in that weak area and be able to make an informed decision.
I'm pretty freaking honest, but I think that's for selfish reasons. I mean, if grad school isn't for you, and you come anyways, you're taking a spot from someone who might want to be there (and would be a good colleague) and using resources that could be better invested otherwise.
I've been recruiting for my grad school for the last four years, so I definitely have the opportunity to talk to undergrads considering grad school - they keep asking me to go back, so I guess I'm doing something right?! :)
When talking with undergrads I answer questions I'm asked. I don't say, "Oh, quals was the worst experience of my life - grad school is terribly traumatic" but I don't sugarcoat things either. Most of the undergrads who talk to me don't know the bad parts (quals, defense, finding a job after) of a PhD or aren't worried about them yet.
The thing I do tell anyone who is serious considering grad school is this: grad school ISN'T what one should do when they don't know what else to do with their life. Go to medical/pharmacy/nursing/law school if you need to go to school rather than get a job, but grad school - NO.
As to the scale of awful (awesome phrase, btw): My grad school experience has been traumatic at times, but I've been reasonably successful obtaining research results & funding while working for a PI I'm rather compatible with (at least work-style-wise). I'm here because a PhD is required for the jobs I want to have *if* I grow up. That has been essential for me on those days it's difficult to put one foot in front of the other.
I am honest but honestly my grad school experience was not particularly awful. I also let students know that my experience was very different from the rest of my cohort, since I worked full-time and had a kid. Was it awful doing all three things? It was very hard but all three were also very rewarding and I didn't/wouldn't give any of them up.
I do think the game changed from when I started pursing a doctorate to when I got one and the career that I was training for doesn't really exist anymore. I was lucky to find a different version of that career that I actually like a lot better, but many are not so lucky.
I do think some people are meant to pursue a doctorate degree (in my field the masters' level is a very practical, obtainable, and lucrative degree) and while I don't say it like that, I do talk to students about what it is they ultimately want to do and point out what different degrees will allow them to do.
Dunno... Overall, I loved grad school. It was hard (I had a kid in grad school, money was incredibly tight; initial advisor had health problems so I had to switch advisors 1.5 years into the program), but I worked for a very smart if grumpy PI who was well funded and let me run with my own ideas and treated me with respect. I made a number of very good friends. Research was challenging but exciting and I wrote a lot of papers and didn't have to worry where my salary came from.
But I agree that grad school is not for those without adequate motivation. It is certainly not for those who have no better idea what to do with their life (ironically that seems to be the reason for most entering grad students). Smart people without a zeal for research are probably better served, as someone pointed out above, going to a professional school rather than getting a PhD.
The best approach is to encourage undergrads who consider grad school to spend a summer or two doing research, which will give them a good feeling of whether or not loosely supervised research is their cup of tea.
I'm definitely honest, because I would have wanted people to do the same for me. The one thing I make sure to tell students is that they should only go into graduate school if they're really interested in doing research and they can't do it elsewhere. It's not the thing to do because they don't know what else to do (i.e., pressing the ol' snooze alarm on life). You have to do it because you have a passion/love for it - otherwise it will be hell (and it might still be hell).
I actually have to say that I LOVED graduate school - much more less stressful than undergrad, plus you get the freedom to explore new ideas, design experiments to test them, go to meetings,etc. I made some of my closest friends in grad school and met my wife there. Sure, it was hard work, but so is everything else. I guess I was lucky to have a good, easy-going mentor from whom I learned a ton of stuff. I think that if you like science and want to dedicate your career to it, then you will like grad school. Same with a postdoc, I also had an excellent experience.
Similar to Namnezia, I loved grad school. Unlike undergrad, where you often had to jump through hoops for a grade, I felt like the requirements of grad school (qualifying exams, classes, research) were giving me practical and useful skills. Of course, I think a great deal of this has to do with the fact that I had a scientifically kick-ass, genuinely nice mentor and made a close-knit circle of friends with whom I'm still in close contact.
I'm honest (as I was with my post doc place) but I am always stressing that it was MY experience and not necessarily the story for all grad students. I do tell some pointers to think about before going into graduate school (realizing it's not all roses, why they want to go into grad school, long hours, looking out for themselves, making sure there is some kind of money....)
Over all, I wouldn't not do it again. However, I would've done it slightly different at certain times and especially if I'd know some things prior ^^
Prepared is forwarned.... isn't that the saying?! ;)
Grad school was overall a good experience for me. B+. I'm pretty blunt about it. Mostly because people were with me and it was helpful (even if I didn't always listen).
My comments to undergrads would depend on who's asking. It's not just an issue of if the student seem capable but if graduate school will even appeal to them. Those without any real motivation who are just looking for something to do aren't a good fit. Graduate school isn't fun if it's not what you want to do with your life.
My $0.02 from the second year of a PhD...
Like: advisor (most of the time), being on fellowship, flexibility and interdisciplinary leanings of program, school (most of the time), most of the classes, a good chunk of the undergrads I TA'd, kick-ass collaborators/friends, free international conference travel, instrument selection & availability.
Dislike: entrance exams, stressing about orals, organizing large quantities of data, skateboarders on campus, time-suck nature of certain classes, the pit of despair when things fail for several straight weeks.
Same timeline as psi*psi here; I agree with a lot of what she's said.
Like: advisor, interdisciplinary program, school, classes, teaching (which I'm not currently doing, sadly), field work!!!
Dislike: time-suck nature of certain classes, grading (thank God I don't have to do that any more!), Pit of Despair mentioned by psi*psi, personal junk which gets in the way of my grad school career.
I've had a number of undergrads (former students) ask me about grad school. How I respond to them depends very much on who they are. There are some I strongly discourage (usually those who couldn't think independently if their life depended on it), and there are some I strongly encourage. This is not to say that I don't tell the ones I encourage that it's a boatload of work; I don't sugar coat the experience at al. But I always tell them that it's worth it.
i think you have to be honest about what will be expected of them in grad school but you don't necessarily have to delve into your experiences.
my master's SUCKED EGGS about 85% of the time. i'm in my 4th yr of my ph.d (different MRI) and it's not great, not terrible. classes were demanding, you always feel behind, research can sometimes suck the fun out of everything (especially when it's not working for months at a time). i've had people in my yr and my dept complain that they didn't know what they were getting into at first, and still NOT understand what was required to be a successful grad student.
so here what i tell prospective candidates in a nutshell:
1. it is incredibly demanding
2. THERE IS NO DEFINED FINISH LINE, it's a 4-7 yr process
3. if you don't like asking "why", "what does this really mean?", and "how can i make this work?" then you need to rethink grad school.
great question!
Grad school was a blast, but those days (and those faculty) are long gone. It makes a difference when the faculty work (and play) as hard as the students do.
I've blogged about jobs a lot, so I would always make the point that only 1/3 of physicists will work in academia -- if past is prologue like it has been for over a century.
However, the message that I know I would fail to get across is that grad school is not school. (Heck, I struggle to get across the idea that college is not high school even if a lot of college is now like high school used to be.) The comment above about no definite end point is spot on. There are no answers in the back of the book because the book hasn't been written yet. You are writing it! But if you realize that your single goal is to know more than your adviser, you are on the right track.
I tend to be honest about the parts that were great and the parts that were hell, and try to point out why they were so / what one might do to minimize the hellish aspects. There are so many factors that shape this experience, and many of them are unpredictable (see pit of despair above) -- you have to be passionate to stand the dark times. And I've talked to surprisingly many that weren't.
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