In grad school, it was a given that profs and students drank together. After all, no one can work that many hours for that little glory without a serious cocktail habit. (or maybe that was just me?)
If you teach at a PUI, the majority of your students are under 21. I certainly wouldn't go grab a beer after classes with any of them. THAT is frowned upon here.
But what about at conferences? Drinking is an integral part of research conferences. (or maybe that is just me?)
If an undergrad is 21, would you invite them out with a group of colleagues for drinks? What about former group members from grad school?
11 comments:
From the student's point of view:
DO IT. The bonding and socialization experience is so, so, so important.
From a former student's point of view: don't do it. The respect students have for you will be lost in 15 seconds. In my experience, even an innocent single cocktail you see a prof ingest makes you see them in a different - and not a better - light.
I always like to avoid the appearance of favoritism with undergraduates. Because all the undergraduates can't go have a drink (some will be under 21), there could be the appearance of favoritism. If a student complained to my chair, I would not want to have to defend drinking with students.
I never went drinking with my profs as an undergrad, even if it was legal where I was (18 drinking age). It was just too hard to keep respect later on (said as older men who got too intoxicated ...)
that said, I never went to conferences as an undergrad either...
Grad school - hell yeah. If they don't want to drink, that's fine too. It's the socializing idea of being "outside of lab". Again though, there is always the risk factor of alcohol and conferences ^^
Where I am from it is 18 too, and our tutor group ended up meeting for office hours in the pub.
From a professors perspective I think it is ok to drink, but not ok to drink too much. At least not if you want to be taken seriously! The student can probably get away with it if he or she is a traditional (18-21) student, but a mature student or a grad student should know how to handle alcohol and act appropriately.
I also think it depends on how alcohol affects you. Funny drunks can get away with it more than angry or emotional drunks.
Clarissa-
You would lose respect for seeing that your professor is a real person, and likes to have a drink w/ colleagues at a conference, after they were nice enough to include you? That seems very judgmental. Being included as an undergrad at social situations is a great opportunity to meet possible grad school connections or just to meet influential people in that field of study.
At all of my conferences people go out, undergrads are usually around but not necessarily w/ there profs.
I think it's a great idea to "socialize", even with a few drinks. But I would watch out for the drunken socialization. I always enjoyed a glass of wine or two with my mentors, but I DID lose respect for other PIs when I saw them three sheets to the wind, and then act inappropriately as a result.
A chance to get to know your prof better is never a bad thing. Your experience is invaluable to them. I've had teachers that completely changed my life. Just be aware that no one is more impressionable than a sleep-deprived under-grad with little to no direction and full of indecision.
I think you should always be sensitive to people who can't (or won't) drink alcohol--some of these will be under 21, and some won't. I don't, and a fellow grad student, who's allergic to gluten, has serious trouble drinking beer (the socializing beverage of choice around here).
I should add that I have no problem being around people who are drinking as long as they aren't totally smashed. I'm quite happy to share a plate of hors d'oeuvres with friends, as long as I can have something non-alcoholic to drink while they order their beer. On one occasion, I was invited to the department's favorite hangout--the craft brewery down the street--which only serves beer of assorted types. That was pretty awkward.
I guess I am saying that socializing with professors isn't a bad thing--I got to do it a couple of times as an undergrad, and it was pretty awesome--but those in charge of the expedition should make sure that there are appropriate choices for those who can't or don't drink.
First answer: Only if you discuss Science in the bar!
Better answer: I don't think it is a good idea to go out drinking with undergrad students who are (or might be) in your class. In grad school, that line ("teacher") is blurred and it is perfectly reasonable for faculty and students to drink together ... but see First Answer.
I went to a conference as an undergrad, although I graduated the day before it started and I was 22 at the time. My professor took three students from our PUI to the conference, and the other two were only 19. I remember my professor pulling me aside before we went to talk about the drinking issue. She said something like, "you know how when you're with old friends, you might act a little different than you do in class?" and then explaining how there would be a lot of drinking. I was surprised given that I had no concept of what a conference would be like. Anyway, we definitely drank a bunch, although it was in our hotel room, not in a bar, because of the remote location of the meeting. I'm super glad about it because it's how I got to know Research Advisor enough to end up with a job in her lab, and it set me up with enduring colleagues from other institutions. I don't know what the younger students did, but there were definitely not there for the drinking. I don't think they wanted to be, though. Like, they knew it would be awkward since they were underage and wanted to be off with other younger students anyway. Or something.
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